Re buy Tourney

Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Posts: 21

Hey guys,

Tomorrow the regular game I play in is having a tourney. Most of the guys want to make it a re buy and add on up to the first hour. I was wondering how you guys would like to approach it? I will post the info for the tourney at the end. I was just wondering if you guys have general rules you go by or if you approach each one differently.

I was thinking of taking it slow in the beginning (like I usually do) and play sorta tight. I don't want to over invest in the game and I know most of these guys will be really loose and sloppy with their play. I will be trying tomake sure I stay in position with premium starting hands only.

I guess a big question is should I add on if I have a healthy chip stack? I am sort of leaving this open ended because I want to try and get as much info from you all as possible.

5K (not dollar) buy in. (only about $40)
blinds start at 25-50 and will raise every 30 min.
Will have about 15-20 guys there.
Add on will prolly be 3K (about $25)
Can re buy as many times as you like before the end of the first hour and add on is for everyone at end of first hour if you want.
NL Hold em

Other than that will run pretty normal. What do you think?

Thanks!!

Bajas

Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 524

I take an omaha sort of approach to re-buys...

* Play Ax suited for stacks if you flop a flush draw (exception being paired board).

* Play xy for stacks if yor open ended and have 1 or more overcards (JT on 984 board)

* Play AA, KK, QQ fast before the scare cards hit

* Play AK top pair on neutral boards (A73 or K26) for stacks but try and play passively pre-flop (unless you can jam it all pre-flop).

*Play anything better for stacks - 2 pair above

Chances are you will be up against all sorts of funky hands in a re-buy.... draws, underpairs, weak kickers, and the usual suited crap

Identify the players, tweak my advice to fit and your sorted

Cool

BUT REMEMBER,

it is IMPORTANT that you build a stack early on, but by putting your money in ahead as much as possible... Playing Ax flush draws for stacks works because the A tends to be an out too, putting you in the coinflip range anyway, plus you have a lot of extra value in the pot from the previous round.

The average starting chipstack will NOT be what you start off with, it will realistically be double or even triple that value. So if you start with 1000 chips, the average is at least 3000 at that point... so your below average.

Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 156 Location: Las Vegas, NV

Pros have the mentality that you should rebuy as much as possible. That doesn't mean play sloppily and make loose calls. Also, even if you do have a healthy chip stack, yes - add-on. Unless you have the chip lead and have double the amount of chips as the person in second, I'd add-on. There is a reason why you see pros playing $100 rebuy tournaments who otherwise wouldn't play an MTT for less than $500.

Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 524

ICO2525 wrote:

Pros have the mentality that you should rebuy as much as possible. That doesn't mean play sloppily and make loose calls. Also, even if you do have a healthy chip stack, yes - add-on. Unless you have the chip lead and have double the amount of chips as the person in second, I'd add-on. There is a reason why you see pros playing $100 rebuy tournaments who otherwise wouldn't play an MTT for less than $500.

not too sure on the addon bit you made...

And i think you need to define sloppy... because in my opinion a re-buy should be played pretty similar but with a touch more gambling than usual. You shouldn't be afraid to put all your chips in, but you should reserve it to nut draws (some/a lot of the time) and better.

The addon bit....

If your average stack or less then yes i definately think you should addon

but when your stack to average difference is high, the equity increase isn't too significant...

eg your on 20k and avg is 10k. Addon is 2k. You buy the addon for 2k but it doesn't really increase your chances of winning. You dont NEED to double up right now.. double up 20k to 40k or 22k to 44k and still the difference is small

eg 2 your on 6k and avg is 10k, addon 2k. You buy again and go up to 8k. Suddenly a stack around average is looking a lot healthier, and can be pushed around a bit (more than 5/6k). double on 6k puts you to 12k which is just above average, but 8k double puts you to 16k which is way above average.

and finally lets say you put a 20k stack in against another 20k stack, AA vs KK. Theres a K on the flop and you lose. Your out. If you had 22k though the money still goes in and when you lose your on 2k with 10k average stacks - a shot but realistically you need to win 2 double ups to scrape it back (0.5^2 on average unless you can take down pots for free). So the 2k serves little edge should you be unfortunate enough to lose.

Which is why for me an addon is not vital when i have an above average stack. Rule of thumb for me, look at what your on and what you could be on and ask yourself if your happy with either amount. IF your happy with your stack then dont addon

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:55 am

think they tend to do as many re-buys as possible because it allows them to build up the number of chips in play making the later stages very deep and ideal for their style of play.

Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 156 Location: Las Vegas, NV

There is a polarized debate on the issue of the value of chips (as ammunition to win / go deep ITM in tournaments). Sklansky says the fewer chips you have, the more each chip is worth. Pros like Arnold Snyder say that the more chips you have, the more each chip is worth. I'm on Snyder's side.

Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 524

sklansky's side for me....

Saw an article in a magazine before, basically had the list of the starting stacks of the 9 WSOP main event finalists, and the amount of value they gained/lost relative to their worth.

It was surprising how a shortish stack went on to win and took a huge + equity from the game...

For the player who won, his small stack was eventually worth a larger chunk of the pool, so his stack was worth more.

The shortest stack went out first and lost only a bit in terms of equity

But the short stack literally GAINED equity for any other position, had he not bust first. Therefore when he places 8 or better he makes money, and there is still a decent chance of him making 8 or better (cooler for large stack/ double up)

OOh a great example;

your heads up with 1k vs 31k . Blinds are 100k/200k so your both all in every hand. You paid £8 to play. Theres a £32 prize pool and top 2 paid - £12 and £20.

Your 1k stack is worth £1 at the moment according to the pot/chip size

But your GTD £12?

And your set to win £20 0.5^5 of the time (which is small but possible)

Actually makes your stack worth £12.25 (unless i've done something wrong) if you do £12*(1-0.5^5) + £20*(0.5^5).

So a tiiiny stack is worth so many chips!

2k vs 30k = £12.50
4k vs 28k = £13
8k vs 24k = £14
16k vs 16k = £16

So yes!

A tiny stack can be worth a lot more than the equity worth at the precise moment. In fact it is worth more than the current position your set to make !

so i agree with sklansky

Those who think more chips are worth more are going off pure results and the fact that they can gain extra chips from different methods, when in reality a huge hit to a large stack kills off a load of equity (it is hard for a short stack to do that Razz

)

Joined: 25 Sep 2007 Posts: 220 Location: USA Pennsylvania

Yea!!! What He Said Very Happy

Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 524

one more thing to add on

im my example, the 31k was worth £31....

but the top prize is £20

So regardless of result, doesn't that make his stack worth less than what it should be? If he cant take more than £20 then he loses value when he wins!

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:27 pm

wouldnt this need to be looking at a torni chip as a £ amount in relation to the total prize money rather than chips is play and the amount each player has.